Susanne Sulley: We don't think our stuff is disposable...it's just that pop music generally is these days...it's just one of those things. I got a new window cleaner last week, for example, and he said, 'didn't you used to be in that band?' And of course I said, 'well we still are, actually'.

Phil Oakley: We can't afford to have Moby remix our tracks...and although we've heard that he's been talking about working with our material for some time, we're not sure he'd be right for our tracks. It's really nice when someone like that talks about you, but it was the record company that pointed it out to us...we're just not sure what he'd do with our tracks really.
Joanne Catherall: Mind you, you never do know what someone's going to do with the tracks you give them. You sort of give them to people and they can often come back with something that's completely off.

Phil Oakley: We did six months work in Sheffield and that was crap so we threw it away. Then I went to London to work in Battersea with Ross Cullum. We did a really intense six months and some good ideas turned up there. We listened to a load of other stuff for inspiration. Ross was also playing around with different distortion techniques, so from that work we ended up with like a table of effects really. More ideas developed from that and had a lot to do with the final sound of 'Secrets'.

Phil Oakley: It was 13 months with Toy, but then we were dropped by East West, just after the stuff with Ross. We were basically costing them more than they were making them.
Joanne Catherall: The record company got completely restructured, the managing director left and most of their bands were just dropped. They were disposing of bands that were in the Top 10 at the time.

Phil Oakley: Well...I hate talking about the Spice Girls, but it is the all time apochryphal tale that Mel B was dropped with a No.1 hit in tow.
Joanne Catherall: 'Octopus' was a success, but again the decision to drop us had nothing to do with how good we were doing. At the time, East West also had Simply Red, they were earning bucket loads but were dropped all the same. I think they got rid or more or less everyone...
Phil Oakley: Except, I think the American stuff. I think they wanted quick turn around. Specifically, we were signed up by Ian Stanley for East West and he and his best friend, the managing director, both left. At that point we might as well have left anyway. There's no point being there without anyone to support you.
Joanne Catherall: We've done that before as well. When we were with Virgin, there was no one there that understood us, supported us or really knew why we were on their label. That doesn't help your career at all..it's not productive.
Susanne Sulley: It had been taken over by EMI as well, it was just massive...

Phil Oakley: Possibly, although it wasn't intentional. The instrumental stuff was meant to relate to different times in our careers and the different material we've produced. It's interesting that you mention 'Shameless' though, as that track was completely transformed by Toy. We had a bit of a dopey Euro-disco track, a tiny bit like The Pet Shop Boys' 'It's A Sin'. We had no idea what to do with it, but he just came in, kicked it around until it was one of my favourites really.

Joanne Catherall: I don't think it's like an albatross around our necks or anything, but it is all that people ever want to remember us for. It's as if they don't want us to move on...they want us forever to be that group that sang 'Don't You Want Me' or 'Mirror Man' and they don't want us to change...

Joanne Catherall: No we weren't...we didn't really think about that sort of thing. All I remember is doing it in the middle of the night, being fast asleep and then being woken up to do some vocals.

Joanne Catherall: Well, we had a guitarist in the group at the time and he wrote the backing for 'The Lebanon'. I think it was just felt that at the time we couldn't stop him... But more than that when you have had such big success at first, you do find yourself experimenting with ways to recreate that success. So, you decide to change things in some way...it was probably a huge mistake in our case. People who liked Human League wanted to listen to Human League records and not rock tracks...and those that liked rock weren't going to take it from Human League...the pop band.

Susanne Sulley: Well 'Crash' saved our career really...if it hadn't been for Jam and Lewis, we wouldn't still be here. We were in a bit of a state, we'd started recording it with someone else and it wasn't working out, so the managing director of Virgin asked us who we'd like to work with. We were listening to the SOS band and a group called Change at the time, so we hoped to work with them. We approached them and they really liked 'Fascination'...they even wanted to write a few songs for the album. One of those tracks turned out to be 'Human', which was one of our biggest hits.
Phil Oakley: I was quite surprised that it was liked as much as it was really, it was quite a smoochie track.

Joanne Catherall: We never have made our money...
Susanne Sulley: We probably would have done if we'd made our money![Laughs]

Phil Oakley: Never...but the girls might disagree with me. You wore what you wanted to then, it was about being bold. Most people now are terrified of standing out. We live in a very modest time now, it's amazing how much things have changed. We have a guy that helps us out from time to time, he's 21 and wears eyeliner...he's totally unusual. Years ago we wouldn't trust anyone that didn't wear eyeliner! And if you didn't, you were a rocker or something was wrong with you. These days you have to look like you haven't made an effort, that's the problem. Everything's extreme as well, it's either a question of having hair a millimetre long or it's right down your back and matted. But it all looks like they've not bothered.

Phil Oakley: 'Tell Me When' was our best achievement for me...against all the odds.
Joanne Catherall: Our second No.1 in America with 'Human'.
Susanne Sulley: It's got to be my first Top Of The Pops experience...I'll never forget that.